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43 comments
I must have missed something big...what horrible disgusting thing are they talking about??
September 23, 2009 at 2:27:00 AM EDTIt WOULD stop if Nutmeg didnt lie about not mentioning it in the forum again, the Auntys have a forum for all the news anyone interested can see it there where Etsy Admin are called bastards in public what nice people the Auntys and Uncles are. Does uludag mean The one with a sick mind and stupid followers?
September 23, 2009 at 9:06:00 AM EDTThe whole thing just needs to end. Nobody ends up looking good in this situation.
September 23, 2009 at 10:18:00 AM EDTSilver, I'm not questioning the group's actions or words to be hurtful, and I'm not accusing anyone of lying.
September 23, 2009 at 10:26:00 AM EDTWhen the group started trying to get media attention and to private donors, it opened up its words and action to scrutiny.
I don't understand why the group doesn't just address concerns or questions instead of getting angry, dismissing them, or trying to ignore them.
Curly Sue, the horrible disgusting thing was this thread, written by someone that appears to be nutmegs husband.
it's so annoying that it always has to end up this way. angelstuff should have just ignored the thread and let them be happy for the article. no harm done.
September 23, 2009 at 12:02:00 PM EDTI must have missed something big...what horrible disgusting thing are they talking about??
September 23, 2009 at 12:54:00 PM EDT---------------------------------
A person I am unwillingly more and more suspecting to be one of the two nutmegs (for reasons given below) posted a thread full of vitriol about Trudy's condition, claiming all people with brain tumours are mentally diseased and that they all lie. :(
You may have seen the nutmegs repeatedly expressing how much they love playing with words and translations. Therefore, I was surprised with the sockpuppet's name - "uludag" - which is a Telugu word (the dialect the nutmegs speak in that region) spelled backwards: "gadulu". You may google it and you will find it in the title of several Telugu novels. Moreover, the sockpuppet "uludag" has only bought from nutmeg and has the exact same birthday as her husband. Maybe it's all a coincidence, but it seems so fishy to me.
I had a tremendous amount of respect for the cause and was feeling guilty with myself for doubting - wondering if I'd become too hardhearted. But after this, I have a hard time trusting. If you shill, make a sockpuppet saying such horrific things and then claim it's some friend...can you expect trust in other areas?
Here's the thread:
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6282413
MY focus is on Adia, where it should be. Stop trying to spin a conspiracy out of nothing.
September 23, 2009 at 4:51:00 PM EDTBut if that's not enough for you guys, then Ditto what Silver said.
..$400?
September 23, 2009 at 4:54:00 PM EDTUludag is a mountain in Turkey. You don't even need to spell it backwards.
September 24, 2009 at 12:34:00 AM EDTWow, Filbert... you certainly took the 'bastards' comment out of context, didn't you?
September 24, 2009 at 4:31:00 AM EDTBonita said...
September 24, 2009 at 10:22:00 AM EDTMY focus is on Adia, where it should be.
It appears she is being well taken care of now by uncle Sagar Dhara.
Its interesting Uludag is a mountain in Turkey where the Nutmegs were this time last year appealing for another cause so many connections to them
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2008/08/379021.shtml
Seriously, take it off Etsy. Keep it off Etsy. Hopefully after this Nutmeg will figure out that breaking her self imposed ban wasn't a good idea.
September 24, 2009 at 11:13:00 AM EDTFilbert... sooo, you have an issue that Nutmeg has an active voice? Or that they were in Turkey which 'proves' that Uludag is Nutmeg's husband?
September 24, 2009 at 4:21:00 PM EDTAgain, spinning conspiracy out of whatever thread you can find, eh?
And what, exactly, is your angle on Sagar Dhara?
Amber... the post was not intended for discussion, but rather an announcement. It really didn't need to go the way it did. That was Chantelle's choice. I know some people on Etsy were waiting to hear about the article. I thought the post was innocent enough... well, whatever.
What is it, EXACTLY, that you guys want?
I suggest you take a week to gather your combined thoughts, questions and concerns together into a cohesive email, and shoot it off to:
contact[at]adiainindia.com
Perhaps then we can address whatever it is that's got you all sour and agitated.
What is it, EXACTLY, that you guys want? Perhaps then we can address whatever it is that's got you all sour and agitated.
September 24, 2009 at 6:46:00 PM EDT---------------------------------
This is what I'd like:
- People who express doubts or have questions to be treated kindly
- The nutmegs et al. not to troll Etsy with sockpuppets attacking the above with the lowest insults possible ^
- Concerns to be answered without hissy fits, vitriol and lies about sockpuppets
- Supporters of this cause to allow concerns to be expressed instead of trying to shut up every dissenting voice as if they own the Etsy boards
- Some frelling maturity.
Chantelle said it really well:
"I don't understand why the group doesn't just address concerns or questions instead of getting angry, dismissing them, or trying to ignore them."
Filbert, how would anyone who's not part of the group know the status of the child? It's no longer being publicly discussed on the blog or on the adiainindia forum. Only people who are members of that forum have access to that information.
September 24, 2009 at 7:25:00 PM EDTI don't understand why the article was announced on etsy at all when the group has the blog and forum - shouldn't announcements go there? If you put announcements on etsy, anyone is allowed to post whether you want them to or not.
Questions and concerns that have been publicly expressed should be publicly addressed by nutmeg or this group.
My biggest concern with the article is the details that were wrong, especially the child's age. How did that happen? Was it the journalist (in which case that's not really an article to be proud of, is it?) or was the journalist given false information? Or something else?
I have tried to be polite about my questions and concerns. But when I or anyone else asks any question about what's going on, it isn't answered. Instead it's ignored, or some other agenda is discussed, or there's an angry backlash.
If this group is serious about wanting to raise money, then you all should be able to answer questions no matter who asks them or in what tone. Without getting angry or telling people to stop asking questions.
Sigh. Maybe you're not really serious about wanting to be a charity or raise money. Or maybe you don't understand why not answering questions makes the group look so much less credible. Or maybe this really is some kind of shady scheme.
you know, just ignoring the threads you don't like can help.
September 24, 2009 at 7:44:00 PM EDTif the people that don't approve of nutmeg simply ignore her, then the threads will eventually go away.
there really is no need to cause controversy everytime Adia is mentioned in the forums.
Blogger Chantelle said...
September 24, 2009 at 9:27:00 PM EDTFilbert, how would anyone who's not part of the group know the status of the child? It's no longer being publicly discussed on the blog or on the adiainindia forum. Only people who are members of that forum have access to that information.
====
okay, so there is only one part of the forum that "members only" and i am part of the forum, and i can not see it. from what i have been told it's only voting on things like logo and posters and such. you can join the forum and see for your self. as for lack of announcements, the nutmegs are out of town because they had to get their visas renewed. it was a sudden unexpected event. and mr. nutmegs friend's father is watching Adia, he has their contact info but it seems that he has not contacted them. as i'm assuming that if nothing bad is happening then there is no need to contact them. he is a social worker and i guess is very busy.
This is all on the forum and open to the public to see.
best,
Emily
Win,
September 24, 2009 at 10:15:00 PM EDTYou are a kind and charitable soul, and quite frankly, I am surprised at your posts here about this. I will repeat what I have said before: Anyone that gives to charity should do so freely, without expectation of anything in return. If you (not you, Win, but people in general) do not know what you are getting into by donating, then do not donate. Nobody is forcing you to!
Do the things and causes I donate to always meet my expectations? No, but I don't expect them to, people are human, and are not perfect.
As for the sock puppet thread--bad idea, so to whomever did that? Boo on you.
And I'm not going to lambaste anyone who has any illness, mental or physical, but to use it as an excuse for poor and nasty behavior is wrong.
Illness is terrible, but it's even worse to use it as a crutch.
From now on, it would be refreshing if everyone could STFU about their own problems. IT ISN'T ABOUT YOU. And it isn't about your illness, your mental illness, your Person-of the-Milennium award, nothing! It shouldn't even enter into a conversation about charity for another. It is about Adia. Why why why do people insist on telling us all this? It doesn't make your points more worthy. And someone (goat mountain?) already offered to refund anyone who was having a hissy fit about not having a receipt for their 5 bucks that was given to a beggar in exchange for directions.
Honestly, I am appalled at Etsians' behavior. If you want your refund, goat may still be offering them.
Win,
September 24, 2009 at 10:45:00 PM EDTYou are a kind and charitable soul, and quite frankly, I am surprised at your posts here about this. I will repeat what I have said before: Anyone that gives to charity should do so freely, without expectation of anything in return. If you (not you, Win, but people in general) do not know what you are getting into by donating, then do not donate. Nobody is forcing you to!
----------------------------------
Fair enough. But why act immature, troll with sockpuppets and get revenge on people for having concerns and doubts? This isn't giving money to a homeless person in front of a supermarket, it requires teamwork to help this child. Is that how charity organisations do good for their causes and proceed to change the world, even a tiny little step at a time? By becoming so insufferable to people, by getting on their nerves until the organisers are banished to a locked forum or some remote area?
Whether the money are going towards a cause or is a scam doesn't bother me personally - I agree with you that when you give, you have to have faith and you never TRULY know.
However, this the disappointment of seeing someone I respected so much, who started a cause I was saving to donate for resort to things I didn't think they had in them to do is quite upsetting. For my part, if I decide to donate, I'll do it and that's it - but the constant bashing of those who have ANY sort of concern is becoming more and more irritating, and more insufferable.
Creating a charity is not the same as giving in good faith. It requires some sort of organisation, and a consistent, polite addressing of concerns. That is why organisations fighting for causes use newsletters to update people on what is happening, and so forth. They don't go 'Gimme your money or STFU you conspirator!' nor do they retaliate when someone has questions.
Round of applause to Pease who has stated my feelings on this matter most succinctly and eloquently.
September 25, 2009 at 10:50:00 AM EDTSo sad to see this situation just become another thing for Etsians to bitch, whine and moan about.
There are American children who go to bed hungry every day, hundreds of children around the world die every day due to real starvation and illness. There are genuine organised legal charities working to help that are worthy of support. Whereas in this situation of a family benefiting as a direct result of child cruelty Auntys who are not wealthy have been sucked into it because it is someone they *think* and feel they know and who continues to try to drag it into Etsy forum in order to attract further donations from more people without actually asking and breaking the TOU in an obvious way. It is WRONG to drag it into Etsy all news and information should remain within the separate forum and blog - anything else is soliciting for further donations from the Etsy membership no matter how cunningly it is disguised. WRONG WRONG WRONG.
September 25, 2009 at 11:16:00 AM EDTIf anyone intends to create an official charity they should get used to honestly answering any and all questions without being nasty or they could find themselves eventually answering questions asked by Police.
Just out of curiousity---anyone have any numbers of how much money has been raised so far?
September 25, 2009 at 3:52:00 PM EDTFrom "the OFFICIAL Adia thread" ( http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6270484&page=78 ) :
September 25, 2009 at 5:49:00 PM EDTnutmegclick says:
anyone who wants to be involved in the discussion of how to next procceed in Adia's care is invoted to join the discussion here:
http://adiainindia.com/forum/index.php/topic,60.0.html
And from "Adia's Recovery thread" ( http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6280204 ):
nutmegclick says:
there are lots of pictures on the Adia forum - hope to see you there!
http://adiainindia.com/forum/index.php/topic,87.0.html
---
Both links appear to be related to the child's status, but since I'm not an adiainindia forum participant, I can't view either of those links.
Therefore it does seem that the child's status is being discussed on the private forum - which is where it should be discussed - in threads not viewable by anyone but forum participants - which seems odd.
Chantelle -
September 26, 2009 at 9:55:00 AM EDTAs the site and forum sole administrator, I will quickly address your concern about the forum being closed off.
We have an obligation to protect the local contacts in India who have asked that their information be kept confidential.
While we were discussing things, we did not realize some of this information was being posted publicly so the quickest way to remedy the situation was to close off certain threads to non-members.
Although I'm aware there are a few who feel that we should be completely and totally transparent, we will not betray the trust of those individuals who have requested anonymity, who certainly have the right to THEIR privacy.
I will be working on re-organizing the forum as soon as I am able to. Behind the scenes, I have been having issues with the host provider and may be moving if I can't get the hosting requirements I need for some planned upgrades to the site.
Because Nutmeg is currently in Nepal, we all have been taking a bit of a breather; there's not much of an update on Adia at this time, so you're not missing much. To our knowledge, her family has taken her off the streets and to their home village while they wait for Nutmeg's return.
Any further questions, concerns or comments can be directed to:
contact[at]adiainindia.com
I hope the Auntys have very deep pockets.
September 26, 2009 at 10:56:00 AM EDTBonita, thanks for this explanation. Something doesn't make sense here. Even if, as you say, some people didn't want their names public, I don't understand why the child's status couldn't have been publicly discussed there without revealing names. And if it had to stay secret on the forum, why couldn't it have been updated in the blog?
September 26, 2009 at 12:56:00 PM EDTFor a group that is trying to make itself into a charity, keeping the child's condition secret at this point is very, very strange. We were told earlier in these comments that the child's welfare wasn't discussed privately on your forum, and that turned out to be a false statement. Was that person lying? Or is that what the group has told people to say? What is the truth here? If you are telling the truth, is it the whole truth? If I uncover more "secret" information, will your explanation change?
I'm not going to email you privately. If you can't tell, one of my concerns is that things are being kept secret when they should be publicly discussed if you're really trying to be a charity. Therefore, I will not move this discussion into a private venue. It needs to stay public.
As an aside... I understand that it sucks to be questioned and that you all want me to stop.
I would have let it go - or would never have brought it up - if you all weren't trying to be a charity AND Trudy's questions weren't treated the way they were. The anger, the name-calling, that horrible thread, the lack of answers.... all that combined made it look like nutmeg and/or the group was hiding something. And I wouldn't even care about that if you weren't trying to be a charity organization and hadn't contacted celebrities and the media.
There's nothing wrong with people questioning a group's actions. Any charity has to expect that their actions will be questioned.
NEWSFLASH: if you don't like what is going on with the Adia threads, then don't read them, don't post and don't donate.
September 26, 2009 at 1:05:00 PM EDTPeople genuinely want to help this child, so let them. I've donated to many charities and I don't expect them to give me every freakin' detail of what they are doing with my money. That's what donations are, you donate and that's it.
Why does every good deed have to be questioned continuously on the forums? step away. you people are only making yourselves look worse.
Google Sagar Dhara one found fits profile lives in Hyderabad gives address and telephone number wonder what he would say.
September 26, 2009 at 4:30:00 PM EDTChantelle -
September 26, 2009 at 7:54:00 PM EDTAccess to the blog is available only to Nutmeg and since she is currently busy in Nepal, she is not updating it atm.
The threads that included information that was requested by individuals to remain private were the ones that had updates on Adia and I have not yet separated the two.
Nobody has lied. Perhaps Emily is unaware that some threads were made unviewable to the public because she is already a forum member.
I have given you the most recent update on Adia here. Please give me some time to get the forum and site organized better. As I said, I'm also dealing with hosting issues and life on the side.
As for the other issues, I really do not think 'this' (meaning Closed Threads) is the right place to continue discussions either, which is why there is an invite to email. If you wish your email and our response to be made public, just indicate so and I will get something in place.
Thanks,
Bonita
Chantelle... Adias condition wasnt maliciously discussed privately on the forum. It could be that in one of our private threads we talked about her... but every update that we have had regarding her condition has been provided in the public forum.
September 26, 2009 at 10:08:00 PM EDTYou probably wont believe me.. or any one of us for that matter and thats fine. Just so long as I made my TRUE statement as to where her updates can be found. Sometimes we forget which areas of the forum are blocked and do our updates there... but Svartr is helping to better organize the forum so we keep all pertinent information available to the public.
http://adiainindia.com/forum/index.php/board,2.0.html
Not all of what we discuss as a group needs to be public knowledge. No foundation/charity/NPO/NGO works that way. Most of what you cannot see has to do with our logo, mission statement, and discussions on who/what/where we should register our charity/NPO. Its not something that needs to be public knowledge until it has been decided upon, so we will continue to have those discussions in a closed room, just as other NPOs do when it comes to the inner workings of their group.
It doesnt suck to be questioned... what does suck is that every answer that we can and have provided is never enough because its not what you (not you you... collective you) want to hear. We have only been doing this for, what, a month... maybe 2? We are learning and doing our best to become a legitimate charity. We are getting organized and as I said learning. This is definitely not an easy task that has been undertaken, and we have just scratched the surface. When we initially rallyed for support it was because a very sick little girl needed help. It never occured to any of us that donations would be called into question because documentation wasnt our priority... Adia was. Im sure you can understand that.
The Trudy thread was disgusting. I will not defend that because we as a group had nothing to do with it. It was wrong and you will never hear me say different about it. As for the anger... seeing it from Nutmegs perspective, I would be angry. To have a group of people publicly call me a scammer and demand private information about me... well thats enough to set off any reasonable person. But I think before the anger is the hurt that it caused. Can you imagine waking up to public ridicule and being faced with that? I wish I could say that I cannot imagine it... but being that I witnessed it makes it all too real for me and I realize that I may someday be in the same situation. Im sorry that it turned on Trudy like that as well and only wish her the very best in her health and future volunteer work.
Back to the the A.D.I.A. forum we initially asked those with questions and concerns to join us at those forums because some people wanted us off etsy... then we were told that by going to our Adia forum we were hiding things so we should stay on Etsy. Either way, we will never be able to please everyone who has been following this cause.
Bonita, thanks for engaging in this discussion. I very much appreciate your willingness to discuss this. You are right that this place - the ClosedThreads comments - isn't the best place to have this conversation.
September 26, 2009 at 10:08:00 PM EDTHowever, I'm still not comfortable conducting it over email. There are enough other people who've weighed in and have their own questions and concerns that they should be free to ask them and have them answered as well. Is there a place where we (and anyone who's interested) could continue this discussion?
It does seem odd that nutmeg would not have given someone else permission to update the blog, given that she knew she was going to be away. She has had internet access throughout so it doesn't make sense that she wouldn't have updated the blog.
Even if nothing has happened over the last couple of weeks, the last entry there states that the child is going into the hospital and an update will be provided. All of these actions together make it look like the group is hiding something.
Emily, did you know that the threads from the adiainindia forums I mentioned couldn't be viewed by non-members of that forum?
Diane, when the group contacted media and celebrities about this child, they took it beyond etsy. Even if they hadn't done so, the fact that you don't question groups doesn't mean that other people can't question them. Questioning the acts of a group that is trying to be a charity is not unreasonable. Asking people to stop that questioning IS unreasonable.
Joyce - No. We do not have deep pockets. We are donating our time, talent and personal funds to the cause.
September 26, 2009 at 10:11:00 PM EDTFilbert - Im sorry you hate us so much. I dont know you personally and Im not sure if we have ever conversed in the Etsy forums. I am a nice person, and I am the one who first called us Adias Auntys because in Hawaii everyone who is older than you is an Aunty or an Uncle and this tradition is the same in India.
Im not gonna say that I am a saint. I can swear with the worst of them, I have made TONS of mistakes in my lifetime, but those flaws do not make me less caring or less loving... it just makes me human.
You are right in saying that there are many charitable agencies out there who need support. If you find one that calls to you and your ideals then please do not hesitate to support them. I have done over 10 years worth of volunteering here in Hawaii for the Special Olympics, Foodbank and a special program called Lokahi Adopt-A-Family, but my part in those has always been as a second party volunteer and never within the inner workings of the group. Just becuase I have taken up a cause outside of the USA doesnt mean that I have negated all efforts to those that are local charities.
I think that as individuals we are all deserving of some aspect of anonymity... our contact in India is someone who is helping us and has asked for that anonymity. I would ask that you be respectful of that request and do not contact him to placate your curiosity. He is a contact that we cannot afford to lose and by getting ramdom calls from curious strangers, we could very well lose his experience and support. I truly hope you can understand that and not find more malicious intent behind the request.
I have tried to answer the questions that have been voiced here to the best of my ability.
I dont have all the answers... I am just one person in all of this, but I have been truthful and respectful and I just ask for the same.
Thanks.
My question got skipped over the first time...out of curiosity, how much money has been raised so far for this cause?
September 27, 2009 at 11:22:00 AM EDTI've been told on the Etsy forums that the answer is somewhere on the private ADIA FORUM..but as I'm not a member of that forum, I can't view the info...
Karina it is available for viewing at the Blog.
September 27, 2009 at 2:47:00 PM EDThttp://thestoryofadia.blogspot.com/2009/09/finances.html
We are still doing our best to get organized, but are planning to have a meeting next month for an accounting update.
Karina--the article in the paper said $400.00.
September 27, 2009 at 4:25:00 PM EDTChantelle--you say you are not comfrotable discussing either by email or here. But can I ask what your interest is? I don't want to think you unintelligent, but your interest in this is somewhat puzzling. If you have donated, and believe you have been scammed, I am sure the ladies would be happy to give you a refund. It seems to me your interest is to prove some sort of malfeasance or fraud. But I'm not sure what YOU get out of such a thing? Will it make you feel better if they are proven to be a fraud? Which I don't believe, by the way, but I'm just wondering if you would be satisfied with anything short of jail for these "frauds"? They have expressed that they are more than willing to share any information other than the identities of those who have wished to remain anonymous. Sorry, but I don't believe everyone is always entitled to know everything about everything, and no one owes any sort of explanation to anyone whose only interest is in proving them a fraud. This just makes me sad. Why not just let them be and go about their business. You do not have to be involved.
Pease, my motivations for asking the questions I do shouldn't matter. Also, the phrase, "I don't want to think you unintelligent" is insulting and has no place in a reasonable discussion - which is what I'd like to think we're having here.
September 28, 2009 at 11:26:00 AM EDTIn the interests of being an example and behaving the way I'd like to see others behave, I'll answer your question as honestly as I can.
I've been looking at my motives for staying with this because you're right - I'm not involved and there's no benefit to me whatsoever. So why do I care?
Well, it's partly that this came up when I was vulnerable; my SO was away, several friends had just died, and thinking about this situation was a way of not thinking about or dealing with my other emotions.
Plus the stuff that happened with Trudy hit kind of close to home, and I felt I had to start asking questions about what was going on.
I've been pointing out things that don't make sense not because I want you all to fail - I'm not that negative - but because it seems that the group doesn't understand how their actions are perceived by other people or why this is important.
If the group hadn't been trying to get media and celebrity attention, then I wouldn't be questioning anything; I'd let it go.
It's not enough to *be* honest - a person/group must also *appear* to be honest. In other words, image matters, if you're trying to raise money and get good attention... and I'm sad to say that the group's image is not honest or professional; it's shady.
I know that nutmeg and the group really does mean well and could do a lot of good, and I've said that I don't think that this is a scam. However, some of the behaviours make it *look* like there's something shady going on.
So, what makes the group look shady?
- discussing the child's status behind closed doors with no public updates.
- discussing the journal article on etsy instead of the blog or forum. People following the story already know about the blog and adiainindia forum; why post it on etsy? That doesn't make sense.
- things in the article (especially the child's age) not matching up with what had been said before. Saying that journalists make mistakes isn't an answer - if the journalist got the details wrong, the article wasn't really worth celebrating, was it? Also, even though the article said that $400 had been raised, how do we know that's true?
- not answering questions when they're asked, and either deflecting them by focusing somewhere else (like nutmeg's decision to educate people on india) or getting angry.
- changing the answers to questions as new information is revealed. First people said that the child's status was not discussed on the adiainindia forum - people gave the same explanation in etsy threads as Emily did here. When threads discussing the child's status were pointed out, the explanation was that people wanted privacy. Why not post updates on the child's status somewhere, then? People who don't belong to that forum were interested, too. That doesn't make sense.
- disappearing adiainindia threads such as the one on embroidery. Why did that one switch to being private? That doesn't make sense.
- uludag (?) appearing to be a sock puppet for nutmeg's husband (or maybe MrNutmeg is the sock puppet?) and the appearance of shilling with nutmeg. That makes nutmeg - the leader of this enterprise look dishonest.
- continually asking that questions/concerns be discussed privately instead of publicly addressing them.
There might be more examples, but I can't think of them off the top of my head.
Each one thing, taken by itself, is no big deal. Taking them all together, it makes this whole situation look weird and shady.
Chantelle,
September 28, 2009 at 2:01:00 PM EDTOnce again, it's not about YOU. It has nothing to do with you and your problems. It is wrong and selfish to project your insecurities onto things in life that have nothing to do with you, especially when it can result in harm. Please, just let these ladies be.
Like "The Gambler" said: You've got know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away".
This is going to be my last post on the subject as I can see my attempt at reasoning with you is not succeeding.
Good luck with straightening out your problems.
seriously, chantelle, move on...
September 28, 2009 at 2:20:00 PM EDTYou know, I thought Bonita/Svartr and I were having a rational, reasonable discussion; why, pease and Diane, do you keep interfering? What does this get you?
September 28, 2009 at 4:57:00 PM EDTYou asked me why I was involved and I answered. That's not making it all about me, that's answering your question. I don't understand why you continue to attack me personally. That behaviour makes no sense.
Honestly, why can't you people just answer the questions you've been asked? Why can't you treat the questioners with respect?
Sigh. If you were telling the truth, you'd just say it - there would be no need to attack anyone else. Between that and the fact that there are so many things that don't make sense, I can only conclude that pretty much everyone who's spoken on the group's side is lying to a greater or lesser extent. Certainly almost no one is telling the whole truth or being completely honest.
Either that or you're all about 13 years old.
I hope that those people who do think critically and for themselves will reconsider their involvement with this group. There are many actual charities out there that could use your help.
I'll let this go here. If you take this back to etsy, I have no problem with continuing to question you there.
Current list of Legal Active National Charities working in India:
September 28, 2009 at 6:07:00 PM EDTAmnesty International
CARE
Caritas
Christian Children's Fund
Christian Vegetarian Association (CVA)
Friends of the Earth
Greenpeace
Habitat for Humanity
Happiness Foundation
Lawyers Without Borders
Médecins Sans Frontières
Opportunity International
Oxfam
Plan
Save the Children
International Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies
Salvation Army (a religious denomination with a major focus on charitable work)
Society of Ethical and Religious Vegetarians
Society of Saint Vincent de Paul
SOMA: Sharing of Ministries Abroad
SOS Children
SOS Children's Villages
Tearfund
UNICEF
Voluntary Services Overseas
Four global charities have offices in the Pacific Northwest of the USA:
Mercy Corps
Northwest Medical Teams International
WaterAid
World Concern
World Vision International
I have been watching this scenario since the start and was waiting to donate when I saw things actually beginning to happen and saw Adia improving but no official updates on the child in India have been visible since 14th September. Thousands of Rupees (over 30,000 I think the figure was) have been given to the Beggar family and nothing tangible has been achieved. The latest unofficial report is that Adia and her family have returned to their village to await the return of Nutmeg - whenever that might be. I was under the impression that a family friend/social worker was looking after her interests. I also thought the plan was that five days after Nutmeg left that they were taking Adia to hospital but that doesn't appear to be the case so it looks to the outsider that all that has happened is all those Rupees have been handed over to the family and Adia is in exactly the same state that she was when Nutmeg found her. It also would appear to the outsider that this social worker/friend arrived at a very convenient time. After weeks of desperately running around trying to get her into hospital suddenly this calm and knowledgeable person arrives to take control not only of Adia but her pregnant mother and siblings too. Just too convenient.
September 29, 2009 at 4:00:00 AM EDTNow there appears to be a completely new project in the pipeline. Bolts of material for villagers in Nepal who have lost their homes in landslides. Not second hand clothes which I would have thought would be the sensible answer given that they have lost everything and winter is almost on them. No - material so they can make their own in this year's fashion. For someone who professes to be shy and retiring, Nutmeg is making a fine job of covering that. Going to the villages with the aid workers. They must be delighted to have a couple with a child tagging along.
A year ago the Nutmegs were trying to save a village in Turkey. Then they moved to India and another cause was found.
I, and I am sure no one else, is rubbishing what the Auntys are doing. They are trying desperately to help a small and very sick child but I feel they are being taken for a ride and I think others probably feel the same.
There are plenty of aid agencies and workers both in India and Nepal from what I can gather. Their problem is resources. The workers are trained and know what they are doing and how to achieve the best results with the limited cash they have. The agencies have people based in the area where they are giving the aid and these people are committed long term. They don't flit from cause to cause and country to country as the mood takes them.
There are too many anomolies in Nutmeg's explanations for it all to sound plausable. There is just too much unaccountable money. Google Indian Beggars and the advice is to give a few rupees. Not thousands.
If all those thousands of Rupees had been given to an Aid Agency with the proviso that they helped Adia then I am sure the outcome would have been much better for the child.
To all the Auntys I would say that I both admire and respect you. You have all put so much of yourselves into this project but try to see it from an outsider's point of view.
If you want donations then you need to be upfront with your information. No one is going to donate money to help one child in India if there is no information on how that child is doing.
No one is going to donate money if the person at the sharp end doesn't appear to know what they are doing or how to go about dealing with people - from hospitals to beggars to aid workers.
No one is going to donate money if they see nothing that nothing is happening with one cause and then see the whole thing shifting to another country and another cause.
Nutmeg has a way with words and I think the Auntys have been so drawn in to this cause that they can't see any further than what Nutmeg tells them.
Unfortunately from what I have seen (and again I am talking as an outsider) that this whole cause is becoming a laughing stock.
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